Thursday, October 30, 2008

I'm a floppy fish

I've thought about posting about this for a while. But I am such a floppy fish when it comes to political stuff that I've wimped out until now. I know that most people are extremely polarized when it comes to the upcoming election. I just can't get there. Am I the only one?

Being an evangelical Christian in this country means that I am automatically assumed to be a McCain supporter. I read blogs from my democrat friends that are so anti-McCain. They are so angry at the thought of him becoming president. And I read blogs from my republican friends that think he will be the best leader we've ever had. They love Palin and all she has done. McCain is experienced--tried and true.

I am PRO-LIFE. I do not personally think an abortion is morally correct no matter what the circumstance. Yes, even 13-year old girls who become pregnant through incest. I tell my kids all the time that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I won't ever change my view on that. And yet, being the good Christian girl that I am, I haven't felt that I could choose my candidate based solely on that one issue.

I was really wavering. Obama or McCain?

Then I read about Obama's past with late term abortions and particularly, with care for aborted children that are born alive. All of the sudden I became polarized. I posted on this blog that I could never vote for someone who chose not to protect those children born alive. In my mind, I felt that I couldn't vote for Obama anymore and still be a good Christian. That left McCain.

By golly, I just can't find peace with that decision. I don't like McCain's plan for insurance (something that will most definitely affect our family directly!). I don't like his plan for education. I don't like his stance on the war. And I cannot *stand* how he has talked about his internationally adopted daughter like a humanitarian aid project. I agree with McCain's pro-life view.

I DO like Obama's insurance and educational plans better. I do like his plan for the war better. And I like his view on international affairs better. Yep--I think it would be good for someone to sit down and talk! I still can't stand Obama's views on abortion (obviously).

Today I was talking to Taevy. One of those deep talks where we get down in there to the stuff that hurts. One of Taevy's hurts right now is that she is so different than everybody else in her school. She said, "I just wish I was born in Mexico like the rest of my friends." {Does that tell you a bit about the ethnic makeup of their school!? LOL!} I talked to her about the things that are similar between her and her friends. Hair and eye color, the fact that they were all born in another country, the fact that the US is their country now. Taevy looked at me with these wide eyes and said, "The US isn't my country!" I said, of course it is! She said, "No mom. Cambodia is my country. I'm not REALLY a US person." I said, "Of course you are Taevy! You are as American as me and daddy and everybody else in our family!" This was a complete and utter surprise to her (somehow). She said, "You mean I can grow up and become president just like Obama?!" Yes Taevy Baby, you can. [Well, we're just going to assume that by then legislation will have passed!] I went on to tell Taevy how Obama lived in other countries, but was still a U.S. Citizen. It's like it opened a whole new world to her.

I think about all of the other children who see him everywhere and have a light bulb moment just like Taevy did. "I could be president too! It doesn't matter what color my skin is, or what religion I practice, or if I used to live in a different country. I can do it too!" That makes me so happy to think about.

I'm starting to drone on here. When I started this post I was going to write about how I am undecided even at this late hour. But that's really only because I'm a flip-floppy fish when it comes to politics. I don't like talking politics because I never seem to be on one side or the other enough to please any of my very passionate friends and families.

The truth is, I'm not undecided. I just don't think I can vote for McCain Palin. While I have some faith in McCain and his ability to lead, I just can't get "with" Palin. She's too out there for me--way out in right field.

The truth is, my political and social views more closely mirror Obama's than McCains. If abortion weren't an issue, it would be a no brainer. But it is, so it has been.

Despite Obama's views on abortion, he will get my vote. I do not intend to flip-flop around on this anymore. And I WILL be glad when the election is over so that we can get on with the business of starting to support our new leader, whomever he may be.

To my Republican friends: I understand why you would vote for McCain. There would be good things about having him as our president.

To my Democrat friends: I understand why you would vote for Obama. There would be good things about having him as our president.

Bottom line for me: Neither one of them has the last name BUSH!! =-)

Anita

27 comments:

Dailey Family 11:35 PM  

Hi Anita
Wow...can you believe how time is passing! I just arrived home with Ruth from Vietnam and wanted to check out your blog. I also do not have a strong feeling for our candidates. When each one stood up in unison and voted for the "Bail out"" bill..we could all see who THEY stood for...the folks paying their bills..!

BUT as I look at my two children who were born cleft lip cleft palate and know in OTHER countries they have been aborted because of that condition, I cannot vote for someone who believes otherwise.

Can I ask..and believe me I am not judging you on your decision..just want to know..how do you reconcile voting for someone who is OK with abortions...and late term abortions, equally the same to me; with our Father's word? He did say give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's..that dollar is of no concern to Him, but the children..He said "let them come"?

Again, I am not judging but feel compelled to ask.

Blessings
Monica

Kerry 5:36 AM  

Now that we are considering having a transracial family, the thought that having a black man as president sure would be a good thing for my child (especially as you say, one who lived outside the US). I won't vote for him, but that would be one boon to his presidency.

I just can't get past his stance on abortion - they are the absolute "least of these". And I don't agree with his (or most Dems') understanding of government's role. I am a pretty libertarian leaner, though.

I really liked McCain when he ran a few years ago...and maybe I don't know enough about Palin, but I like her. They'll have my vote.

I do realize that regardless of who gets into office - most of their "plans" and "promises" will be altered based on the realities "on the ground" - budget, economy, political reasons will force them to scale back or change much of that. So, I'm not paying too much attention to the plans and promises - more to the general bent of their politics.

Dems generally favor more government controls - except in the area of life issues; and Repubs generally favor few government controls - except in the area of the life issues. I prefer fewer gov't controls. I'm also REALLY concerned with the utilitarian direction our culture is heading - if a child is not "wanted" then it has no value, if an old person is a drain then they have no value, if a child is not perfect then it has no value...etc. We either believe that people have value based on their ability to earn or we believe people have and intrinsic value because they are created by God.

I don't think a McCain/Palin admin would change that direction, but they might help slow down our continued decline.

But either way - KUDOS to you for stating you case! :) I'm like you and don't blog about politics much - like at all.

Jena 6:00 AM  

Hey Anita-
I am also a pro-lif Christian who is voting for Obama-
I just put up a post about this on my blog.

I totally understand your wrestling and flip-flopping. I was too until about two weeks ago. I still continue to submit it to the Lord and ask him to change my mind if need be! But at this point, I don't beleive McCain to have any more of a consistent pro-life stance(which includes issues like war, gun control, saving the plantet, capital punishment, welfare etc) than Obama.

Ericka 7:20 AM  

This is beyond a doubt a tough election.
I just want to throw my two cents, Mc Cain WAS pro-choice until 2004 when he ran against Bush. He flip flopped.
Obama and the late term, ew, but he voted that way because there were always laws on the books required docs to provide care if the babies were born with a chance to live and it had language in there to tear down roe vs. wade.
He's only voted present on the abortion issues when it as omitted language protecting the mom or if the bills aim was to rid of roe vs wade statutes.
I've researched this until I was sick to my stomach.
Abortion still makes my stomach turn, but I have to think of the reasons WHY someone might have an abortion - lack of health care (like Obama's plan better), lack of 'wealth', like Obama's plan better. Maybe these are all just excuses to rationalize my decision....
May God be with those who abort as well as those who give birth and now need the resources to help raise the child.

ManyBlessings 8:46 AM  

I am glad we live in a country where we still have the freedom to choose.

However in my book, human life trumps all. And always will.

dawn

Bingaling 9:06 AM  

Anita,
I know you know its no secret I'm an Obama girl...But I also totally understand that for many people the abortion issue is "the" issue and they will always vote for whoever has an "R" after their name. There are many pro-lifers who are also pro-Obama...if it helps, check out these sites, as they discuss Obama's stance on abortion and that pesky vote he made in the Illinois senate. After reading about his vote there and the reasons he cast the vote he did, I could vote with confidence (even on the the abortion issue).

http://www.matthew25.org/

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life_article.php?id=7591

I'm not trying to sway anyone's votes...I think we all have to vote our conscience and be able to stand up proudly for the vote we cast.

Can't wait for this election to be over. I've already cast my vote...now I have to wait, wait, wait.
Chanda

A. Gillispie 9:21 AM  

Wow. What great (and respectful) comments. I appreciate you all for sharing your hearts. Monica, you asked how I can reconcile voting for someone who is pro-choice with the Father's word. It's a good question. After reading more of the details about Obama's history on this issue (Chanda gave some good links) I felt better (but not GOOD). I don't agree with his stance on abortion. I'm not pro-choice. I don't think women should have the choice to murder a child. Anyway...

When I think about all of the issues (not just abortion) I am more of an Obama gal. When I think about not only the unborn, but also the born, I think that his policies (and those of the democtratic party) do more to protect those children. I believe that protecting our social systems in America, and protecting the underserved in the rest of the world, is extremely important. If I count all children as equally valuable, I have to consider ALL children (not just the unborn). To me, it's the lesser of two evils.
Anita

Elly 11:39 AM  

I am pro-choice, but not pro-abortion and don't know any one who is. I think one thing that is important to remember is that political laws on abortion are not about the morality of the issue, but the legality of the issue. Some women are going to have abortions regardless, and the question is how does our country treat those women. Are we going to take a woman who has been injured from a botched aborion and is suffering and throw her in prison or are we going to treat her with Christian compassion that all God's creatures deserve? What about a doctor who feels called to perform abortions to ensure that women are not put in that sort of desperate situation? No one is saying that Roe vs. Wade means women should have abortions. Pro-choice people want to protect Roe vs. Wade to protect women in desperate situations. Please read Repairing the Damage, Before Roe by a doctor who has seen a lot:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html
or
http://abortionclinicdays.blogs.com/abortionclinicdays/2008/09/remembering-the-pre-roe-days.html

As Waldo L. Fielding, M.D. says in that article "It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. [...] What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting"

The Eisele Family 12:23 PM  

Hi Anita -
Your talk with Taevy hit home for me. Mira came home yesterday and told me someone in her class told her Obama "kills babies". Time for a big serious talk. I sat all the kids down and explained abortion (not extensively, of course) and what pro-life and pro-choice mean. Then I told her that some people vote only based on this one thing. But Daddy and I felt we had to sit and look at everything. Do we agree completely with Obama? No, not on abortion. But we certainly don't agree with McCain on everything either. So we have to, as United States citizen and parents, choose who we think will do the best job all around as our president. So I am a Christian, completely pro-life mom, who is voting for Obama. In fact I already did.

sue 12:35 PM  

Anita,

Ken and I were just at an amazing Steven C. Chapman & Michael W. Smith concert. Michael W. Smith talked about the election a little bit. But, he summed it up with "just vote your conscience." I could not agree with him more.

For Ken & I personally, we are voting for McCain. He is anti-abortion and has other strong Biblical views.

I feel there is no other choice for a candidate.

Sue~

Janice 1:19 PM  

As a person of color, I would love for my son to be able to look at an Obama presidency and believe he can accomplish whatever he chooses to be. Hopefully, it would also give many well meaning whites a larger worldview to believe that my son has more career choices. I cannot tell you how many times whites meet my four year old son and genuinely believe they are being encouraging when they ask him if he plans on being a basketball player! I live in a very liberal state, but the stereotypes are still very alive and well here. If I was not working, I would also like to be the 45% of tax filers who do not pay any taxes, but whom Obama would give a $500 check (in the guise of a tax cut)!

However, that aside, I have to make an informed decision based on my convictions and conscience. I have to ask myself if the policies that Obama advocates will create the kind of nation that I want my son to grow up in. I want my son to grow up in a nation that values life and religious liberty, a country that fights for his right to respectfully disagree and not make him the brunt of mean spirited jokes on the campaign trail if he does, and a country that he loves and feels proud to be a part of. I want him to live in a nation that does not have a misplaced compassion on perpetrators of heinous crimes but does not have the same compassion for their victims.

Obama’s views on the value of human life are very clear even outside of his voting record. When asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.” P.S. there is no higher government paygrade than that of the president of the United States! He also said that he would teach his daughters values, but if they got pregnant, he did not want them punished with a baby! So, a baby is punishment? Not withstanding that Obama is a millionaire, and both he and his wife could comfortably raise the grandchild, or if that is not what they choose to do, then they could at least encourage their daughter to give the baby life and choose adoption. Obama should be more compassionate of young unwed mothers faced with an unwanted pregnancy considering his mother was in exactly the same predicament. What if she had had the same value system and decided that she did not want the punishment of having a baby?

I am a political junky and listen to all the promises politicians make on the campaign trail and I can tell you, very few of those promises are kept. A president really cannot make any laws—he can only sign or veto those bills that are placed on his desk. Please make a list of all the promises both sides have made and look at that list four years from now!

I think if you look very objectively at both Obama and McCain’s education plans, our children are best served with McCain’s plan where teachers are accountable (I am not biased against teachers—I am one, but I know there are teacher who have no business teaching our children), and one that gives parents the right to choose where to send their children to school—I am a huge advocate for vouchers. Both of these two positions (teacher accountability and vouchers are not positions my union advocates, but I had to think long and hard and took my job security out of the equation to arrive at a conclusion that best served the needs of parents and students). From a historical and economic standpoint, I also prefer McCain’s economic plan. We should all demand that our politicians put their money where their mouths are. How many millionaire politicians who advocate redistribution of wealth do you know who take this philosophy to heart and are actually doing this in their own personal lives? It is easy to take money from a hard working person and decide how best to use their money, but quite another to actually re-distribute your own wealth.

It is not bad to be a single issue voter—can you imagine if all the whites decided that slavery was a single issue and there were more pressing issues that directly impacted their lives? Just my two cents. I empathize with your struggele--I have also struggled with the same issue based on the historical significance of this election.

Have a blessed day and let us all seek the decision Christ would have us make for the least of his children who have no voice.

"War never solved anything except slavery, genocide, nazism, and fascism."

Momto13 2:44 PM  

This entire post was like a wicked conversation that went on in my head several times. Thanks for sharing your views. I really have enjoyed hearing everyone's heart about the election and it makes me feel hopeful just knowing how many people passionately care about it- and therefore care about our country, its people and our future.
Blessings and Love,
Sarah

Momto13 2:45 PM  

Also... people who believe that Obama is OK with late term abortions really haven't done the research!!! He didn't vote for the bill because it made no provisions for the mother's life. Otherwise, he claims he would have voted for it...

Sarah 10:02 PM  

Oh Anita. I am really surprised and disappointed. I would have never guessed you to flop.

Personally, the whole world could fall away (and it is just that "The World"), but I do not want the stains of abortion on my hands. Think of the Sumpreme Court Justices that will probably be chosen. This is long term, past the term of this future president. I truly believe that God will hold us, as Christians, accountable.

Not going to say anymore, because I'm a lover and not a fighter. I'm typing this only with compassion. Please, think and pray on this.
Please, hop over to my blog for a second and read a post.
http://ledtovietnam.blogspot.com/

God is Still on the Throne! 10:48 PM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
God is Still on the Throne! 11:38 PM  

We sing Jehovah Jireh (our provider) in times of prosperity, but when elections roll around, suddenly, Jehovah is not sufficient to meet our needs. Instead, we compromise our Biblical convictions and elect those politicians who we think will supply our needs, be they health care and/or economic prosperity. I think for pro-life Christians, this election will be a referendum on whom they really place their trust in. Will they compromise like the nation of Israel which sacrificed children for the sake of the nation’s prosperity, or will they full lean on Jehovah’s promises to be their provider? I too am afraid about the state of the economy, my ever increasing health care premiums, increasing contributions to my pension plan and a social security system that will be not have enough workers to pay the benefits of my fellow retirees when we retire. However, I don’t believe that Obama will be the savior to solve these issues, but even if I had faith in his charisma and eloquence, I cannot live with myself hearing the voices of the unborn children, whose blood will be on my hands if I decide to vote for Obama.

I can almost guarantee an Obama presidency will be politics as usual in Washington, though the amount of partisanship will likely be more pronounced and more vicious. However, worried as I am about the most liberal senator becoming president, and liberals having control of both the house and senate, I have to exhale and remember from whence my hope comes.

I pray that God does not punish America by allowing our country to spiral further downwards, because we have decided to heap unto ourselves politicians who will tickle our itching ears and tell us what we want to hear. (remember Israel demanding Kings because the other nations had Kings even though this was not God's best for them? God gave them what they asked for, but look what happened to the nation of Israel--divided into two nations. Israel and Judah continued compromising and were always looking for the provisions from their enemies instead of from Jehovah. End result? Captivity. But even God in His sovereignity decides to punish our nation for our compromises, I pray that will be a wake up call to Christians to stand up and be counted, repent for their lack of trust in His provisions, and start a revival in America.

My earnest prayer is that in this election, God's voice prevails in our hearts and votes over all the other competing voices.

Nina 8:14 AM  

I feel much the same way that you do Anita. I do not in any way support abortion. I don't think it should even be an option that crosses the mind of any woman. I could never end a life of a child and I believe that life begins at conception. I wish all women were in agreement with me. I wish that all pregnant women made choices that would ensure the safety and health of their child. I wish all women would give up the short nine months it takes to bring their baby to life whether they are able to raise it themselves or not. I believe that if you are going to have sex, protected or unprotected you should be ready to suck it up and deal with the consequences of unplanned pregnancy. BUT, not every one believes what I do. I think it takes education, money and good health care options for people to be able to look beyond their basic subsistance needs to think rationally about morality. I know that a mother who is unable to care for her children, who has no access to health care and finds her self pregnant again might not feel she has a choice to gestate her child and give it a life. I know a child that becomes pregnant because she was abused or has played with being sexually active when she should be playing with Barbies might not have the support to remain pregnant and give her child life. I want everyone to be like me. Educated about sex (by the nuns at catholic school, we went into great detail about birth control and that abstinance was the only true method to not become pregnant!) confident enough to wait to have sex until it made sense for my life. So that requires voting for someone who will make life better for the less fortunate. Who will provide good education for our children. Who will provide access to health care for all. That means that I will be voting for OBAMA.

mabmd 6:52 PM  

Anita,
I’m SO glad you posted on this. It’s really nice to hear folks discuss these issues without it sounding like one is up on a soapbox.
That being said, there are two things I’d like to mention, so please forgive me if I get up on mine [smile]…
1. To what degree do late term abortions inform our decision to be pro-life? And who ARE these people who have late term abortions and who are the doctors that do them??? I am a pro-life democrat. I am also and obstetrician-gynecologist. What that means is that no matter how much we would like it to be black and white, I’ve learned that it isn’t always. It is VERY frustrating to me to hear people couch so much of their pro-life discussion in terms of late term abortions; it ALWAYs sounds judgmental to me. I have been in practice for 9 years after 4 years of gyn residency training and in those 13 years as a physician, the ONLY late term abortions I’ve been aware of were those where the fetus had an anomaly or genetic condition incompatible with life, or where the mother was so ill, that her life was at risk. [& I have not had a sheltered experience —in those years I’ve worked in two northeastern inner cities, and now in a very suburban, conservative setting.] If a physician were to tell you (not you specifically, Anita; the global “you”) that your baby had no kidneys and thus it’s lungs can’t develop and would likely be stillborn but if not, would die within minutes of birth, OR had cystic cerebral structures, but no true brain tissue in it’s head, OR had only two instead of four chambers in its heart, again incompatible with life, HOW would you respond? Can you imagine carrying a child for months knowing that baby will die? Can you imagine months of people touching your stomach and asking all sorts of inappropriate questions that people ALWAYS ask pregnant women, knowing your baby will not live? Are we Christians then justified in dictating to that woman, how she should handle the situation? What about the woman who goes into kidney or respiratory or heart failure while early in pregnancy? Do we care about choosing life, or do we care only about choosing a fetus’s life. I have had a pro-life patient die despite being told that she was desperately ill, because she did not want to terminate. So instead she AND her baby died. It was devastating. I’m sorry, because now I’m sure that I definitely sound like I’m up on a soapbox, but I just feel so strongly that those of us who are pro-life are pro-life with compassion for the suffering of those who find themselves in potentially horrible situations.
2. I find it very interesting that voting republican and being a good Christian have become synonymous for so many. Is abortion the ONLY moral issue that directs our political compass? --- if we are pro-life, are we not concerned about the THOUSANDs of lives, both American and Iraqi, that have been lost in the war??? ---if we are pro-life, how do we support an administration that spends billions on war and killing on another continent, yet continues to hedge on providing healthcare for our citizens? ---if we are Christian, don’t we care about the stewardship of creation? Caring about the environment, arresting global warming, and that our children have clean water and air is NOT a left-wing liberal issue, as some would have us believe. It’s spelled out for. ---if we are Chrisitian, do we find it acceptable that a candidate who identifies herself as Christian, tolerates shouts of hatred and racism “Kill him[Obama]” without saying “Wait a minute! That’s NOT what we, McCain/Palin, stand for.” How do we reconcile THOSE discrepancies??? God IS on the throne, thus choosing life means choosing ALL life, not just the unborn!

mabmd 6:52 PM  

Anita,
I’m SO glad you posted on this. It’s really nice to hear folks discuss these issues without it sounding like one is up on a soapbox.
That being said, there are two things I’d like to mention, so please forgive me if I get up on mine [smile]…..
1. To what degree do late term abortions inform our decision to be pro-life? And who ARE these people who have late term abortions and who are the doctors that do them??? I am a pro-life democrat. I am also and obstetrician-gynecologist. What that means is that no matter how much we would like it to be black and white, I’ve learned that it isn’t always. It is VERY frustrating to me to hear people couch so much of their pro-life discussion in terms of late term abortions; it ALWAYs sounds judgmental to me. I have been in practice for 9 years after 4 years of gyn residency training and in those 13 years as a physician, the ONLY late term abortions I’ve been aware of were those where the fetus had an anomaly or genetic condition incompatible with life, or where the mother was so ill, that her life was at risk. [& I have not had a sheltered experience —in those years I’ve worked in two northeastern inner cities, and now in a very suburban, conservative setting.] If a physician were to tell you (not you specifically, Anita; the global “you”) that your baby had no kidneys and thus it’s lungs can’t develop and would likely be stillborn but if not, would die within minutes of birth, OR had cystic cerebral structures, but no true brain tissue in it’s head, OR had only two instead of four chambers in its heart, again incompatible with life, HOW would you respond? Can you imagine carrying a child for months knowing that baby will die? Can you imagine months of people touching your stomach and asking all sorts of inappropriate questions that people ALWAYS ask pregnant women, knowing your baby will not live? Are we Christians then justified in dictating to that woman, how she should handle the situation? What about the woman who goes into kidney or respiratory or heart failure while early in pregnancy? Do we care about choosing life, or do we care only about choosing a fetus’s life. I have had a pro-life patient die despite being told that she was desperately ill, because she did not want to terminate. So instead she AND her baby died. It was devastating. I’m sorry, because now I’m sure that I definitely sound like I’m up on a soapbox, but I just feel so strongly that those of us who are pro-life are pro-life with compassion for the suffering of those who find themselves in potentially horrible situations.
2. I find it very interesting that voting republican and being a good Christian have become synonymous for so many. Is abortion the ONLY moral issue that directs our political compass? --- if we are pro-life, are we not concerned about the THOUSANDs of lives, both American and Iraqi, that have been lost in the war??? ---if we are pro-life, how do we support an administration that spends billions on war and killing on another continent, yet continues to hedge on providing healthcare for our citizens? ---if we are Christian, don’t we care about the stewardship of creation? Caring about the environment, arresting global warming, and that our children have clean water and air is NOT a left-wing liberal issue, as some would have us believe. It’s spelled out for. ---if we are Chrisitian, do we find it acceptable that a candidate who identifies herself as Christian, tolerates shouts of hatred and racism “Kill him[Obama]” without saying “Wait a minute! That’s NOT what we, McCain/Palin, stand for.” I, myself, was appalled!!!
God IS on the throne, and i believe he wants us to care about life including those who are already born.

mabmd 6:52 PM  

Anita,
I’m SO glad you posted on this. It’s really nice to hear folks discuss these issues without it sounding like one is up on a soapbox.
That being said, there are two things I’d like to mention, so please forgive me if I get up on mine [smile]…..
1. To what degree do late term abortions inform our decision to be pro-life? And who ARE these people who have late term abortions and who are the doctors that do them??? I am a pro-life democrat. I am also and obstetrician-gynecologist. What that means is that no matter how much we would like it to be black and white, I’ve learned that it isn’t always. It is VERY frustrating to me to hear people couch so much of their pro-life discussion in terms of late term abortions; it ALWAYs sounds judgmental to me. I have been in practice for 9 years after 4 years of gyn residency training and in those 13 years as a physician, the ONLY late term abortions I’ve been aware of were those where the fetus had an anomaly or genetic condition incompatible with life, or where the mother was so ill, that her life was at risk. [& I have not had a sheltered experience —in those years I’ve worked in two northeastern inner cities, and now in a very suburban, conservative setting.] If a physician were to tell you (not you specifically, Anita; the global “you”) that your baby had no kidneys and thus it’s lungs can’t develop and would likely be stillborn but if not, would die within minutes of birth, OR had cystic cerebral structures, but no true brain tissue in it’s head, OR had only two instead of four chambers in its heart, again incompatible with life, HOW would you respond? Can you imagine carrying a child for months knowing that baby will die? Can you imagine months of people touching your stomach and asking all sorts of inappropriate questions that people ALWAYS ask pregnant women, knowing your baby will not live? Are we Christians then justified in dictating to that woman, how she should handle the situation? What about the woman who goes into kidney or respiratory or heart failure while early in pregnancy? Do we care about choosing life, or do we care only about choosing a fetus’s life. I have had a pro-life patient die despite being told that she was desperately ill, because she did not want to terminate. So instead she AND her baby died. It was devastating. I’m sorry, because now I’m sure that I definitely sound like I’m up on a soapbox, but I just feel so strongly that those of us who are pro-life are pro-life with compassion for the suffering of those who find themselves in potentially horrible situations.
2. I find it very interesting that voting republican and being a good Christian have become synonymous for so many. Is abortion the ONLY moral issue that directs our political compass? --- if we are pro-life, are we not concerned about the THOUSANDs of lives, both American and Iraqi, that have been lost in the war??? ---if we are pro-life, how do we support an administration that spends billions on war and killing on another continent, yet continues to hedge on providing healthcare for our citizens? ---if we are Christian, don’t we care about the stewardship of creation? Caring about the environment, arresting global warming, and that our children have clean water and air is NOT a left-wing liberal issue, as some would have us believe. It’s spelled out for. ---if we are Chrisitian, do we find it acceptable that a candidate who identifies herself as Christian, tolerates shouts of hatred and racism “Kill him[Obama]” without saying “Wait a minute! That’s NOT what we, McCain/Palin, stand for.” I, myself, was appalled!!!
God IS on the throne, and i believe he wants us to care about life including those who are already born.

mabmd 6:53 PM  

Anita,
I’m SO glad you posted on this. It’s really nice to hear folks discuss these issues without it sounding like one is up on a soapbox.
That being said, there are two things I’d like to mention, so please forgive me if I get up on mine [smile]…..
1. To what degree do late term abortions inform our decision to be pro-life? And who ARE these people who have late term abortions and who are the doctors that do them??? I am a pro-life democrat. I am also and obstetrician-gynecologist. What that means is that no matter how much we would like it to be black and white, I’ve learned that it isn’t always. It is VERY frustrating to me to hear people couch so much of their pro-life discussion in terms of late term abortions; it ALWAYs sounds judgmental to me. I have been in practice for 9 years after 4 years of gyn residency training and in those 13 years as a physician, the ONLY late term abortions I’ve been aware of were those where the fetus had an anomaly or genetic condition incompatible with life, or where the mother was so ill, that her life was at risk. [& I have not had a sheltered experience —in those years I’ve worked in two northeastern inner cities, and now in a very suburban, conservative setting.] If a physician were to tell you (not you specifically, Anita; the global “you”) that your baby had no kidneys and thus it’s lungs can’t develop and would likely be stillborn but if not, would die within minutes of birth, OR had cystic cerebral structures, but no true brain tissue in it’s head, OR had only two instead of four chambers in its heart, again incompatible with life, HOW would you respond? Can you imagine carrying a child for months knowing that baby will die? Can you imagine months of people touching your stomach and asking all sorts of inappropriate questions that people ALWAYS ask pregnant women, knowing your baby will not live? Are we Christians then justified in dictating to that woman, how she should handle the situation? What about the woman who goes into kidney or respiratory or heart failure while early in pregnancy? Do we care about choosing life, or do we care only about choosing a fetus’s life. I have had a pro-life patient die despite being told that she was desperately ill, because she did not want to terminate. So instead she AND her baby died. It was devastating. I’m sorry, because now I’m sure that I definitely sound like I’m up on a soapbox, but I just feel so strongly that those of us who are pro-life are pro-life with compassion for the suffering of those who find themselves in potentially horrible situations.
2. I find it very interesting that voting republican and being a good Christian have become synonymous for so many. Is abortion the ONLY moral issue that directs our political compass? --- if we are pro-life, are we not concerned about the THOUSANDs of lives, both American and Iraqi, that have been lost in the war??? ---if we are pro-life, how do we support an administration that spends billions on war and killing on another continent, yet continues to hedge on providing healthcare for our citizens? ---if we are Christian, don’t we care about the stewardship of creation? Caring about the environment, arresting global warming, and that our children have clean water and air is NOT a left-wing liberal issue, as some would have us believe. It’s spelled out for. ---if we are Chrisitian, do we find it acceptable that a candidate who identifies herself as Christian, tolerates shouts of hatred and racism “Kill him[Obama]” without saying “Wait a minute! That’s NOT what we, McCain/Palin, stand for.” I, myself, was appalled!!!
God IS on the throne, and i believe he wants us to care about life including those who are already born.

mabmd 6:53 PM  

Anita,
I’m SO glad you posted on this. It’s really nice to hear folks discuss these issues without it sounding like one is up on a soapbox.
That being said, there are two things I’d like to mention, so please forgive me if I get up on mine [smile]…..
1. To what degree do late term abortions inform our decision to be pro-life? And who ARE these people who have late term abortions and who are the doctors that do them??? I am a pro-life democrat. I am also and obstetrician-gynecologist. What that means is that no matter how much we would like it to be black and white, I’ve learned that it isn’t always. It is VERY frustrating to me to hear people couch so much of their pro-life discussion in terms of late term abortions; it ALWAYs sounds judgmental to me. I have been in practice for 9 years after 4 years of gyn residency training and in those 13 years as a physician, the ONLY late term abortions I’ve been aware of were those where the fetus had an anomaly or genetic condition incompatible with life, or where the mother was so ill, that her life was at risk. [& I have not had a sheltered experience —in those years I’ve worked in two northeastern inner cities, and now in a very suburban, conservative setting.] If a physician were to tell you (not you specifically, Anita; the global “you”) that your baby had no kidneys and thus it’s lungs can’t develop and would likely be stillborn but if not, would die within minutes of birth, OR had cystic cerebral structures, but no true brain tissue in it’s head, OR had only two instead of four chambers in its heart, again incompatible with life, HOW would you respond? Can you imagine carrying a child for months knowing that baby will die? Can you imagine months of people touching your stomach and asking all sorts of inappropriate questions that people ALWAYS ask pregnant women, knowing your baby will not live? Are we Christians then justified in dictating to that woman, how she should handle the situation? What about the woman who goes into kidney or respiratory or heart failure while early in pregnancy? Do we care about choosing life, or do we care only about choosing a fetus’s life. I have had a pro-life patient die despite being told that she was desperately ill, because she did not want to terminate. So instead she AND her baby died. It was devastating. I’m sorry, because now I’m sure that I definitely sound like I’m up on a soapbox, but I just feel so strongly that those of us who are pro-life are pro-life with compassion for the suffering of those who find themselves in potentially horrible situations.
2. I find it very interesting that voting republican and being a good Christian have become synonymous for so many. Is abortion the ONLY moral issue that directs our political compass? --- if we are pro-life, are we not concerned about the THOUSANDs of lives, both American and Iraqi, that have been lost in the war??? ---if we are pro-life, how do we support an administration that spends billions on war and killing on another continent, yet continues to hedge on providing healthcare for our citizens? ---if we are Christian, don’t we care about the stewardship of creation? Caring about the environment, arresting global warming, and that our children have clean water and air is NOT a left-wing liberal issue, as some would have us believe. It’s spelled out for. ---if we are Chrisitian, do we find it acceptable that a candidate who identifies herself as Christian, tolerates shouts of hatred and racism “Kill him[Obama]” without saying “Wait a minute! That’s NOT what we, McCain/Palin, stand for.” I, myself, was appalled!!!
God IS on the throne, and i believe he wants us to care about life including those who are already born.

mabmd 6:54 PM  

OOPs!!! No idea how i've commented three times! SORRY!

Deanne 12:22 PM  

I am a reader of your blog and wanted to say that it is your decision who to vote for. I am a christian and prayed about the issue. I woke up in the morning with the epipheny of ; God gave us free will. Each and everyone of us has the choice to do what is right or what is wrong. By voting for Obama, we are exercising the same philosophy as our Lord has. Abortion's will take place whether we or the president agree with them or not. God is Pro-choice in a way. In that he gives us all a choice to make on this earth. Each person is responsible for their own actions. We are not held accountable if someone chooses to have an abortion, that person and the doctor will be the ones held accountable.

Artemis 10:13 AM  

Well, I agree with your voting for Obama, but I do not agree that it is OK to ask a 13 year old girl impregnated by her father to continue with that pregnancy. I will be erasing your blog from my list of blogs to read. That is immoral to me especially when these fathers are saying they are forgiven by God for what they have done, raping a child!?

A. Gillispie 12:50 PM  

To each be his own Artemis. I don't think I ever said anything about incestuous fathers being okay in my book. It's horrid, and a terrible fate for a child. I do go by the old "two wrongs don't make a right" addage though. I personally think it's wrong to abort a child--equally as wrong as sexually abusing a child. I believe that all sins are equal in God's eyes. All black and disgusting.
Anita

sarah 10:26 PM  

I agree with Deanne (another commenter); God will deal with the parents that choose to abort / kill their babies. Morality cannot be legislated (it doesn't work, the Taliban has tried it) and God does give us freedom to choose in all areas of our life.

I am also in a minority (in my church and state) with my political views. It's not always fun when people get so angry about your choice(!?).

Political discussions can be very polarizing but they don't have to be if we can be respectful of others and don't resort to personal attacks.

One of the blessings of this country is our freedom to choose and vote for political leaders.